Vote for a Change in ASH!

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Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by phio_chan on 2010-12-13, 22:39

Good day, members of A Singing Harmony.
You might be aware of the latest discussion in this forum, or you might not be. Whichever side you are, let me summarize the discussion for you.

We are thinking of making a fan website for Akiko Shikata and her works and we are going to integrate it with this forum. We are planning to make the website in several language, but the ones going right now are Italian and English website. For this matter, we have an idea of contacting Akiko Shikata officially to tell her about this little project of ours. Why? Because we believe we are the only kind in the whole internet; there is no other international forum and website for this special singer. That is why we are willing to risk things this far.

However, by contacting Shikata-san directly, it means that we have to take off all download links regarding Shikata-san's albums and many other things. In opposite, those are the things fans usually trying to find the most since they can't buy the real things first hand. There is a probability that if we take off the download links, not many people will want to join the forum or visiting the site.

That brings us to the question we are going to answer together soon: What should we do with the forum and website, regarding that situation? I have attached a poll to this thread. Vote and leave a reply stating your decision and your reason if you don't mind; it's very much appreciated. I want everyone to participate in this discussion because forum and website is all about the members and visitors.

One thing to notice, there is a chance that we will get no response from Shikata-san at all. In such condition, I think it's good if we stay at our current situation; it's great enough for me. But we can talk about that later. In this case, let's just imagine that Shikata-san will really reply to us.

The poll will be left open, but I hope we can get one answer before this year ends. You are given three choices: one is to remove all download links immediately, one is to make a hidden section so members can still find it when they want to, and the last is not to make any change.

Thank you very much for your attention! smile


Last edited by phio69 on 2010-12-26, 02:22; edited 5 times in total
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by -ALT- on 2010-12-13, 22:54

Phio~ is there a 4th choice of "create a new fansite"~ The forum can still go on, while the new fansite will be more for interacting with Shikata San (hopefullllly)? But that actually sounds complicated and even redundant to some extend... ^^||||
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by phio_chan on 2010-12-13, 22:57

But what exactly is the purpose of that new fan-site? Are you trying to say, like, in extreme words, make a copy of this forum only without the download links and (hopefully indeed) try to get in touch with Shikata-san from there?

That is possible, but as you say, it's redundant, and the purpose is not clear enough.

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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by Depthcharge101 on 2010-12-13, 23:05

The safer option is to see if she actually replies, after you contact her. Being a non-Japanese site, she'd barely be able to read anything here, so I don't think the download links are a huge deal. Unless she wants to officially recognize this as her fansite (which I doubt), then it's probably better not to do anything for now.
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by phio_chan on 2010-12-13, 23:18

A non-Japanese, true, but this is English fan-site. I doubt it if she understands nothing at all here. At least I think she will be able to recognize the download links of her album we provided.

Actually our decision is greatly affected by Shikata-san's response later on, but I think we should take like pre-caution if we really want to contact her. Though I do doubt this place or the website we create will be made official.

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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by Maruko on 2010-12-13, 23:24

I voted for the hidden section >< Maybe it is the best thing to do =/ However Akiko doesn't understand english, she often uses a translator.. I know it because several time in the past I sent her some e-mail in english and she answered me that she had used a translator xD This also explains that she actually answers the mails =D
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by phio_chan on 2010-12-13, 23:35

Wow. Really? She doesn't understand English at all? That is... surprising. Since I thought English is a must for everyone in this world. XD

At any rate, if that is indeed the case, then yes, I suppose we can make us of hidden sections. And she really replied! That's great. I'm quite excited about it now, haha~

Anyway, I'm still thinking about it so I'm not voting yet. But at the moment I think I'm going to choose the second option as well.

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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by -ALT- on 2010-12-13, 23:36

Yup~ many Japanese artists actually use [electronic] english translators to reply. As for the earlier post... i meant by make a fansite in the sense that gear more towards a website layout, with info of her stuff etc. So, it's not really a forum... but the hidden section is in fact the best for the time being [but phio brought up that it might seem a little like 'cheating'?]
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by phio_chan on 2010-12-13, 23:37

Ahh, I get your point. So it's actually a website, right? I think we can make use of what Maruko and Wasabi are currently working on. Isn't it like what you mean?

In any rate, if you mean websites, sure, I think we can make one, or rather using what we have had this far.

Well, 'cheating' because we actually hide it from her, right? I will have to make a group with special access to such area... XD
I just feel bad for doing so, though I understand the need of fans who can't buy the CDs. I feel the same way.
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by -ALT- on 2010-12-13, 23:46

Alrighty~ big smile Yup, i was actually refering to what Maruko and Wasabi has been working on. Pardon me for the vagueness ^^|| I guess the general consensus is that the links will still be up~ just a matter of hiding it or not~

@Phio
Yea, i feel bad too~ but i think 'downloading' can help others to know more about her music too...

@Maruko
Have you tried emailing Shikata san in Italian before? XD
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by phio_chan on 2010-12-13, 23:57

-ALT- wrote:Alrighty~ big smile Yup, i was actually refering to what Maruko and Wasabi has been working on. Pardon me for the vagueness ^^|| I guess the general consensus is that the links will still be up~ just a matter of hiding it or not~

@Phio
Yea, i feel bad too~ but i think 'downloading' can help others to know more about her music too...

LOL, you're right. Okay then, it's set like that for the time being. But I'd love to hear what others have to say as well. Oh, and vote, vote, vote! big smile
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by Artesox on 2010-12-14, 00:06

Well,I'm going to vote for make a hidden place,but it would be fine if we just put rare cds there?I don't feel well cheating someone that I almost worship XD

Anyway,what we have to put in our mind is,we have two destines now,or we keep that slow ratting growth and we keep this site with some amazing finds like Pantalea Pamphlet...that will sure bring us more users with the time...OR we can really place all the bets in the experience and resources of this forum and the users (Like singing Metafalica for more land in AT 2 XD)...anyway...it can also be like Icarus's wax wings,and we are approaching the sun very fast....


a..anyway...AKIKO HAVE A EMAIL THAT SHE REPLY? I DO NEED IT,I DO NEED IT NOW adore

Edit: ALT is right,if it was't for the downloading I would never knew about Akiko
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by phio_chan on 2010-12-14, 00:25

Yeah, those are the two options we actually have. Now it depends on all of the members. So far, members choose to take the risks and give it a try, though.

Argh, this is hard! ^^"
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by -ALT- on 2010-12-14, 00:27

I've voted for the hidden section too~ smile

Well~ like what Artesox had said~ resources can be a big fishing hook to gain more fans' attention (alright, I've tried to refrain from the word 'lure' XD). However, what i'm afraid is that people will just come to this forum, rip, and go. I think wasabi brought up in another post that, maybe we should only allow registered member to access the resources?
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by Trunks on 2010-12-14, 00:46

I don't think e hidden area is a good idea. It will be like fooling her...

I think a website like canta-per-me, for instance, is a great idea. Obviously canta-per-me has much more members, but its just a start for us (sorry if including me is impertinence m(_ _ )m )...

Putting lyric, information that we don't find in any place, lives and release dates, however, everything. Except by downloads.

Where are we going to download her things? Well, i find about everything in google xD Its just, if you have something to share, put in another website that alow it. (there are tons of it)

When goes a new release that do not have a great divulgation, well, this link inevitably will apear hidden in a emot look down (ok, i found this idea in canta-per-me forum, rs)

But, i think that a download section is not necessarily needed...

But its just what i think >_<
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by phio_chan on 2010-12-14, 00:48

Yes, that is very true. I tend to think that way, most of the time.
But at a time I would think that, hey, we're not the only one who offer download links out there. They can find download links quite easy out there, so if we put it password-protected, I'm afraid they will just turn away from us. That way we won't be able to grow even more. What else can we offer? Not many people really interested in interacting with members across the world, I think. I was like that before I knew that I was totally wrong. smile

And Trunks has a point there.
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by -ALT- on 2010-12-14, 01:14

haha~ Trunks is a kaujira yuki fan? smile But i get your point, and that's the same reason why i purchase her CDs instead of downloading them ^^ (anyway, you can order her CDs through her website, if you're lucky, you may even be able to order those already out-of-stock copies). I think different members have different motivations for joining the forum, probably we'll have to hear their opinion before a final decision can be made.
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by Maruko on 2010-12-14, 03:14

That's the point. I made this site after visiting canta-per-me, and as you can see they're almost the same, though one is about Yuki Kajiura, the other about Akiko Shikata...
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by phio_chan on 2010-12-14, 18:17

So the conclusion is we're going to make it like Canta-Per-Me? There's no download links at that site at all... That will be quite a big change in the forum if we are to integrate the site and the forum together.

The thing is, Maruko said that in her e-mails, Shikata-san told him to remove all matters violating the copyright. I wonder if we clear ourselves from all of those things, we could get her full support. Maybe we can get her to come here and greet her fans directly. That, in my opinion, is way more valuable and interesting than photos or download links. Or maybe that's only my dream, kinda an impossible one, maybe. ^^"
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by tiredEyes on 2010-12-14, 19:20

Maybe we can just have song previews, but longer ones than those offered officially from FrontierWorks? Like a YouTube channel or something?

While I do believe we should buy her CDs, it's true that I would have never considered buying them if I had not downloaded some of her songs a few years back. With longer, maybe something like poor quality (64kps) full length previews, then maybe we can still encourage people to come to this site. I remember Ar Tonelico II had very long hymmnos previews, which made it much easier to gauge the quality and appreciate the "flow" of the songs.

As much as I don't want to "hide" copyright infringement material from Shikata, I also understand that there are some CDs which are extremely difficult to obtain internationally, like the Pantalea Pamphlet CD. Which is why I still voted for the "hidden links" option. However, if we remove all download links and Shikata acknowledges us, maybe she'll change her stance on "Japan only" CDs. MAYBE.

I definitely agree with phio69 that interaction with Shikata is much more valuable. So I will still support the removal of download links if Shikata acknowledges our presence big smile
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by -ALT- on 2010-12-14, 20:40

I agree with Tiredeyes that offering reviews (and even previews) of her work is itself a form of valuable information for the fans out there. Do you think that instead of putting low quality full length previews, we can direct members to the official websites/legal music purchase channels where previews of the songs are readily available? It's possible for us to put up previews too, but as for 'how much/how long' we can put to be safe from any form of legal violation, I really don't know. If it's possible, we may put up a 'jukebox' like Shikata san where we can offer longer previews of her work without putting them up for downloading.

As much as I wish it will come true, the possibility of becoming official fansite/gaining her attention may in reality be slim. But just a sentence from her, acknowledging that fans scattered around the world have gathered here to supoprt her is itself a sufficient reason for me to be part of ASH smile

As for the issue on images, I think we may just have to utilize drawings/pohtos/images that does not have such restrictions. (I'm pinning my hope on some form of miracles that we'll be able to get exclusive images which Shikata will allow us to use XD ~ alright, that's just a delusion... hoo hoo~)
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by Marvin on 2010-12-14, 21:14

i go for now.. with this guys.

you can contact shikata ASAP.. and then if she says yes.. ask her if its okay if there's some download links for her songs.. cause you know many of them members wants just downloads and i think some fansites do this to,.. they have download links for the songs.. and such smile

i don't know.. its your choice guys ^^.
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by phio_chan on 2010-12-14, 22:27

Similar to what Marvin said, I think maybe we should contact Shikata-san first and explained her our situation. Then we asked if we could get her support. Free forums with small community like us depends greatly on sharing download links to keep the board running. So in return for us removing all illegal download links and photos, maybe we can ask for her support to this place and the website? Especially when she sees that there are people from everywhere around the world here. ^^

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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by Artesox on 2010-12-15, 00:28

Hummm...

I think that it is a "mutual" decision that we are going to take off the main albuns (raka,navigatora,harmonia,at soundtrack,umineko....) but we have to decide about the rare CDs like the phanplets or some of the music box colections....


I don't know what is going to happen,the forum have a nice appeal because it is from around the world, and we work so hard to spread akiko's music and love...it would't be very nice if she just ignore us...a forum that never made a lot of advertising and have 60 members from around the world....


Anyway,lets contact Shikata-san!

c'mon,if there is something that Umineko and Ar Tonelico have told to us is that if we try hard we can change anything....
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by Trunks on 2010-12-15, 01:12

Come to think, what is the downloads metter? I mean, who participate in a forum just to wait the downloads?

There are people who came here, download the musics and go out. I think this type of member is unecessary...

Another problem is that Akiko it self does not have tons of fans outside japan. And this is our point, spread about Akiko Shikata. (But to "spread", downloads have a significant hole... oh ok, its contradictory...)

Or not, i think it can be made even without the downloads... it needs to be divulge.

And even if she doesn't reply the e-mail, the site will continue anyway. So, it's nothing to lose.

Sorry if my ideas are unclean, its hard to express my self in another lenguague sad

Ah, about the rare releases, i think i little divulgation outside here is enough, there is jpopsuki, nyaatorrents, megaupload, mediafire, etc.
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by tiredEyes on 2010-12-15, 01:51

Erm wait if someone contacts her, don't tell her about the downloads! That's like telling the authorities to come and haul us all to court! D: Both the distributor and the end user are not spared in copyright infringement!

If you want to tell her, just say that we are thinking of offering previews of songs. Not downloads! Yes and links to the official purchase site are good big smile
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by phio_chan on 2010-12-15, 01:56

Even though it's rare, it still violates the law... I'm afraid that if we're to be found out, the forum host and me myself will be charged for that... Though there are just too many download sites out there waiting as well. I would love to keep the rare CDs as well, but I don't think we'll be allowed. And even between these 60 members, those who are really fans of Shikata-san don't even added up to 20, I think. Just look at the active members.

I know I can't expect too much from the beginning; to have 20 is already awesome! I can't ask for more. big smile

Nonetheless, it's true that this place will keep on going no matter what is Shikata-san's answer. We're going to continue either staying this way or change that way. So I guess we just have to hit Shikata-san, we have nothing to lose, huh? I only think we don't need to give her the forum or website address at the first time. Maybe we can compromise things with her first before sending the addresses? ^^"

Oh, and combined with tiredEyes' idea as well. Of course we won't tell her! XD
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by -ALT- on 2010-12-15, 02:05

Yea, we need not mention in the email that we have 'some' download links here. That'll get phio and all the uploaders into trouble (that's why I don't normally put up downloads for more than a week. In my country, that's $2000 per song uploaded). In the email, we can probably mention things like we would like to also provide previews of her songs, however, such actions will not be taken if she doesn't want us to.

Additionally, before contacting her, i think it would be good to come together and discuss on what we want to write in the mail and how to write so that she'll understand our sincerity smile
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by Artesox on 2010-12-15, 02:07

Yes, don't give the name of the site to she until we are in the law... or bad things will happen : D
Like those videos of nico nico videos that were shut down with no mercy : <

Anyway,we can find downloads in another places don't?even the rare ones will appear in other foruns with the time...for example at the ARM... and most of her music box albuns cam be listened for free in vagrancy site,the others are new and easly find....

I dont agree with my vote anymore,I don't like the Ideia of fooling Megami-sama : <
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by phio_chan on 2010-12-15, 02:20

Megami-sama, LOL~ XD

Hey, I like the idea of us composing the mail together! I wonder if she would be surprised that way. XD I agree that I feel like changing my vote, ahaha~ At any rate, yeah, that's going to be our current decision, no? I'll still leave this open for more opinions. C'mon guys, just say anything you feel like saying! ^^

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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by Artesox on 2010-12-15, 02:26

It would be very cool if we put our nicknames or names at the end of the mail,so she would see all the fans from around the world : >
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by -ALT- on 2010-12-15, 02:34

Good idea Artesox! But instead of nick names, will it be better for us to write our real name at the end of the long email? It' more sincere right XD

@Phio

I feel like withdrawing my vote too unhappy Is it possible to re-vote?


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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by Trunks on 2010-12-15, 02:44

Good idea ^^
Select the topics of what will be talked, and then develop them.
But what exactly will be talked of?

First say that we love her *giggle*
The request of her acknowledge (?)

Ah, i agree with Alt bout the names ^^
And put from what country we are
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by phio_chan on 2010-12-15, 02:46

LOL, guys, easy. We can talk about that later, at another thread. XD Right now we're still waiting (hopefully) for another opinion regarding this matter to finalize our current decision or to change it again.

As for changing the vote, well, I'll delete and re-add the vote. That way you can vote again. ^^ Wait a minute.

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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by Trunks on 2010-12-15, 02:51

Sorry, I'm just much anxious smile

I think the first option will win this time big smile
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by phio_chan on 2010-12-15, 02:52

Poll re-added, another option is added as well. Vote, vote, vote! big smile

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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by -ALT- on 2010-12-15, 02:56

Trunks wrote:
First say that we love her *giggle*

Nice one Trunks! Imagine, first sentence of the email "We are a bunch of Shikata-lovers" (not stalkers) big smile
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by Artesox on 2010-12-15, 03:45

-ALT- wrote:
Trunks wrote:
First say that we love her *giggle*

Nice one Trunks! Imagine, first sentence of the email "We are a bunch of Shikata-lovers" (not stalkers) big smile

Ah so stalkers are not welcome in this E-mail eh?

amazed

What a unfair world....

Anyway: Yeah we have to think about it with all our community,we have to cause a good impression
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by -ALT- on 2010-12-15, 23:08

@Artesox
Oh my~ imagine what will Shikata san's reaction be when she received an email filled with love from a bunch of STALKERS eyes drop Hahaha~

Em~ Seems like there are still many who has yet to expresse their votes~ Phio~ maybe you wanna set a 'magic number' for the votes to be considered the marjority (since I don't think all 61 members will respond to this post)...


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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by Trunks on 2010-12-15, 23:13

Ouch, o clicked to see the results, but i did not know that it would null my vote very sad
But please, count 1 more vote for the first option cry

---

Magically i could vote now O__O (Oh, thanks Beatrice-sama smile )

Please ignore it >_<
Oh, and i agree wih Al,i don't think that all registered members will vote. baffle
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by Nonomino on 2010-12-15, 23:19

I vote for the first option!
I don't like lying to people, I would feel bad if we only hide the download links from her. cry

I hope she will answer. adore
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by tiredEyes on 2010-12-16, 23:59

Considering what has been discussed, I vote first option too big smile It'd be real nice if Shikata acknowledges us. And yes, let's not portray ourselves as stalkers! XD
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by F r i s k on 2010-12-18, 14:29

I decided to go with the pack and choose the first option too. It would be absolutely amazing if Shikata-san would indeed contact us back. Not to mention the chance to be apart something official!
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by phio_chan on 2010-12-19, 00:39

Okay, keep the votes coming in! I'll let the poll and thread open for some more opinions! You guys can start thinking of what to say on the letter to Shikata-san. XD

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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by kazaki03 on 2010-12-21, 16:11

She doesn't understand English and she can sing in many languages such as Italian and Greek? That's amazing O_O. xD
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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by phio_chan on 2010-12-26, 02:17

Okay, I think I can put this thread aside. With our current conclusion, we are going to make an e-mail for her. At the moment we send the e-mail, I will take off all download section temporarily as we wait for her answer. If she acknowledges us, all download links and unofficial photos will be taken off, but previews will still be available.

Thank you for your participation so far, everyone! Now let's compose the e-mail together so she will hear us. smile

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Re: Vote for a Change in ASH!

Post by kazaki03 on 2010-12-26, 19:40

That would be okay. Besides, with that we are showing our support for her! =)
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